Hi Folks!
First let me make you aware of a change. You will now have to post under the registered option. It is simple as it even accepts AIM screen names. The reason for this is simple. It will make it easier to follow the threads by identifying some handle to a post.
This blog has really proved it's point. When I read the nonsense that keeps getting repeated over and over in the same illiterate manner it leaves little doubt that the core constituency of Epic is not too bright.
Once and for all let's put aside the following points regarding PMTS:
1. I have never met Harb or anyone else associated with PMTS. I am in fact certified by PSIA and still a member in good standing.
2. Harb never claimed he invented the move that he named the "Phantom Move". I challenge anyone to direct us to one place where he does. What he does claim to have done is to have developed a new and complete learning system that is directed to the public. Those of you who do not undestand this are eitehr stupid or ill-informed.
3. Those of you who comment negatively on Harbs skiing just make yourselves and Epic look even more clueless. You can debate the systems all you want but the guy can ski.
4. Those of you who continue to say that Harb was booted from PSIA should watch out. The next time you post that back it up. FYI, many of PSIA's best technical papers that are still in use were written by Harb. Again if you don't know waht you are talking about you and Epic would prob be better served if you kept your mouths shut.
This should preclude any need to address these points again unless you are prepared to back it up with authentic and authoritative links.
The question of why I was banned from Epic has come up a couple of times. I was banned because I called SSH on a racist joke that he made. In a general sense Epic didn't like the way I called people out on their BS. What I object to was the complete double standard that exists on Epic. Those that are in agreement with teh principles of PSIA are allowed to say and do whatever they want. They can treat other members with disrespect on a regular basis but when they get a taste of their own medicine they dont like it. Leading up to the SSH incident was the psoting of El Hombre Rapidos photos. The funny thing is that according to the mods he was whining like a baby even before that over the race challenge.
A private lesson at a resort is up above $500 per day. If you think your money would be well spent with Rick Fastman, BPA, Mangojazz, Nolo, SSH etc. then Epic is for you.
Let me also address Ott's comments about Jerry Berg. Berg is a great skier. I had the pleasure to ski and be coached by him many times. He skis with style and power. Comapring him to Bob Barnes is just wrong. FYI, I have also skied with Bob. He's a nice guy but he's not a skier that I would aspire to ski like.
Not too much longer till the snow flies
32 comments:
VS1, since all of us develop our own style of skiing depending on physique and conditioning, comparing any of the many instructors that teach in the ESA is a moot point.
And as this thread is surely going to be a carbon copy of the previous one, my contribution here isn't going to be any more effective than it was there, so I am going to sit it out, at least for a while.
Regards...
....Ott
Just one more thing on your banning:
The final post for which VS1 was issued an infraction was this http://forums.epicski.com/showpost.p...9&postcount=53
Contrary to your allegation that you were banned for calling out ssh on a racist joke, you quoted ssh who posted:
Quote:
"Originally Posted by ssh Sure there is. There is humor in everything, if you are willing to see it. As Bill Cosby has said, "You can turn painful situations around through laughter. If you can find humor in anything - even poverty - you can survive it."Laugh. Life is far too short to take seriously."
Then you answered:
Quote:
Originally Posted by volklskier1: "Isn't there enough to laugh at on these boards by looking at the skiing of the self-anointed expert coaches here and better yet their writing and analysis? And if there is humor in everything and it's really only the humorless that don't get it and all of you mods are really cool folks with a good sense of humor why the constant moderation here; is there a new policy that means that I can now make fun of and mock the truly mediocre skiing of folks such as you and Hombre Rapido? I mean you wouldn't have a problem with it would you? I'll make the posts very funny and instead of being a slur against the disadvantaged it will be comedy directly related to skiing. Give me the word because there is a lot of material here. FYI, I dont think most comedians today view jokes based on stereotypes as acceptable anymore. They're a very cheap and unimaginative laugh In fact on Last comic standing the other night Richard Belzer scolded a contestant for that very thing."
This remark contains uncounted insults against virtually everyone who participates at EpicSki in a constructive manner. This was the fourth infraction by you, VS1 and you had previously been allowed to return after a time-out. On this occasion you were indeed banned.
....Ott
So Ott, it's ok to make fun of the disadvantaged but not the bad skiing at Epic.
I'm surprised that you can't see how perfectly that post illucidated the Epic hypocrisy.
I'm glad you put that post up. it still cracks me up. One of my better ones
>>>>This was the fourth infraction by you, VS1 and you had previously been allowed to return after a time-out. On this occasion you were indeed banned.<<<<
By epic policy this is confidential information,,,,you are not a moderator,,,,how could you know this???
Let's just say I enjoy special privileges...
....Ott
>>>>Let's just say I enjoy special privileges...<<<<
As in stakeholder????
A big disapointment that managements using the stakeholder group too discuss member moderation. Reminder - epics stated rules that management does not discuss member moderation outside the moderation group.
I am not a stakeholder on Epicski.
....Ott
Anyone there?
...Ott
Funny how the all the ugliness disappears when you have to ID yourself.
Keep up the great work VS1
How true Art, How true.
Special privileges Ott? Good for you.
I am curious about how moderation works at Epic. They have no one moderating the content of the instructional/tech forums. Not the moderation of the bickering, which they jump all over, but the moderation of actual content of the skiing discussions. Without challenging debate, any content is acceptable, even when misleading, inappropriate and downright damaging.
Catch the current thread on lengthening the top of the turn as an example. There's a video posted that some self proclaimed expert teacher espouses as a way to introduce carving. It's horrendous. Truly a dis-service to the skiing public.
Fortunately, participation in those forums have fallen off dramatically so maybe no one is reading the crap anyway.
I don't know how moderation works on Epicski, I am not a moderator, never was.
I saw the thread about lengthening the top of the turn but never read it because it doesn't interest me, I'll have to check it out now.
Self proclaimed expert teachers are a dime a dozen on any forum, you just have to weed them out and put them on your ignore list.
I may not be the best judge as to what is misleading or inappropriate advice, personally, as I did with PMTS, I try it take what suits me and ignore the rest.
One has to be an expert in MA to catch what is inappropriate with that particular skier, often their unequal turns maybe because of hip pain on one side or simply fear of turning either left or right, I've seen it in many students, fear can be overcome but hip pain is another thing.
....Ott
From the PMTS.org web site;
Re: Would you take skiing advice from this guy?
by h.harb on Fri Sep 19, 2008 12:55 pm
Anyone can be an Expert “if you learn the Phantom Move: which, by-the-way, I invented and it’s not used on the world cup.
You have been directed.
3% guy, are you happy now? On this blog by VS1, who is a member of PSIA, not at all connected to HH or PMTS, he put forth that Epic Ski Sucks mainly because it didn't tolerate his contrariness and his verbal attacks and putting down other members.
So why do you bring up HH and realskier forum quotes? Leave PMTS and HH out of this and concentrate on the main discussion.
I know I said I was sitting this one out in my first post but I had changed my mind since the discussion was on topic, until you jumped in.
I may change my mind again if this returns to the old 'anonymous' posts.
....Ott
Harb was joking around,,,,see the sarcasm in his quote.
He makes a point of saying that the movements used in a phantom move are used by other expert skiers and racers in book 1 and 2.
Ott, why were Bolter and Max501 banned?
Gee Ott, I think 3%er is okay--VS1 threw down the challenge gauntlet and 3% found the evidence. I read the referenced post--didn't detect sarcasm in that part of it. if HH wants to take credit for inventing the phantom move, who really cares?
Harb is funny and sarcastic here. Read the books it would be obvious.
>>>>Anyone can be an Expert “if you learn the Phantom Move: which, by-the-way, I invented and it’s not used on the world cup. You know, I have watched hours of World Cup Skiing and I coached numerous world cup skiers and I have yet to see a Phantom Move by any world cup skier, strange, others have noticed the Phantom Move used by WC skiers. I must be blinded by my focus on ski steering and up movements<<<<
Thanks for posting that Shaped.
It points back to the lack of any type of intelligence among the Epic crowd. If you read that and don't see that it is dripping with sarcasm then you really aren't very smart.
Of course this is one of the problems at Epic with their moderation. It is done by people who aren't that smart and don't understand sarcasm or even humor for that matter.
The other point that becomes obvious is that most of the people on Epic who judged the validity of what Max or Bolter said or who continue to comment here on PMTS have never bothered to actually read anything about PMTS. So their comments are based just on ignorant misconceptions.
For the most part they are on the fringe of the sport. Part time hacks that try and regurgitate things that they have heard in PSIA clinics or previously read in the instructional forums on Epic.
For the most part reading the instructional forums is an embarrassment to ski instruction in the US. For example based on BPA's tales of teaching, I actively tell people that are going on a ski vacation and want to have lessons for their family members to avoid Snowbird.
So I guess in a sense Epic is helpful. You know who to at least avoid.
The one thing I am still really concerned about is Rick Fastman El Hombre Rapido. We need to do something for this guy and at least get him some decent looking ski clothes. He's a disaster. Even if you can't ski the part you can at least look the part. I mean look at this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJlO_73a5zI
How'd you like to be in an all day private with this Epic Guru as he drones on for 5 hours. Yikes!
Honestly Snowbird has one of the best ski schools for families that I've encountered. For BPA I think this still relates to the overterraining thing. I'd presonally mellow out on that. At least he actually skis off blue groomers without looking castrated. Snowbird over Flail any day, though Jackson's ski school for mix of kid's instructors, terrain and vibe still gets my overall vote.
VS1, I'd still like to here your views on good areas for families though. Let's say you have 3 kids 5 8 and 11, all able to ski regular runs in control, 5 year old still prone to freezing with exposure, 8 happy go lucky, 11 a racer type, where do you take them that's still fun for you?
Snowmass. It's not even close for a family especially a young family
Dude, why don't you want HH to get credit for inventing the phantom move? He said he did it; why are you taking credit away from him?
oh yeah, I have read his books--the last DVD was awful. He needs to get some help there.
>>>>Dude, why don't you want HH to get credit for inventing the phantom move? He said he did it; why are you taking credit away from him?<<<<
dude, he is fooling around with y'all
end of dvd 1 is filled with wc racers using a lift and tip movement which pmtsers call the phantom move
VS1,
I said it before anonymously, but let me say it now under my real name. I appreciated your honesty and readiness to stand up for truth over political correctness during your tenure on EpicSki. Your sense of humor was a nice bonus. Anyone willing to tell Nolo "Get real!" when no one else would call her out for an outrageous position or who would call a byzantine organization of brown-nosing ski instructors "Tammany Hall" is a valuable person to have around. Uncomfortable truths are best confronted and exposed, and you did this many times on Epic.
I hear your concern about Mr. Schnellmann's potential to do harm. Now that he's outed himself with video and an upcoming set of DVDs, EpicSki posters and potential students can reasonably decide for themselves whether they wish to follow his instruction.
Although I no longer read Epic regularly, I do hold out some hope for its future. One moderator, in particular, has been fair and thoughtful in his interactions with me. (Of course, another moderator is on a vendetta and a third plays teacher's pet with no regard for honesty or fair play....)
I wish an early, long, and snow-filled season for you, wherever you live.
-todd
"Snowmass. It's not even close for a family especially a young family"
Cool. Is this for the beginner friendly terrain, the ski school, or a combination?
The cost of a full-day private really should make people reflect. If they take the sport seriously, there are week-long programs that are likely to give them some lasting improvement that are not much more. If they don't take the sport seriously, the staff in a pricey spa will smile at least as well and be at least as sincere as the instructor at a private lesson that they got steered into on some website.
While I'm quizzing VS1 I may as well quizz him on his opinion of week-long or multiday programs. Taos if they still do their weeks, vs Steep and Deep, adult friendly race camps, and so forth.
Snowmass has a great combination of everything. The properties are mostly ski in/ski out and are in a wide price range. For a family this makes things much easier. They have great intermediate and beginner terrain and their kids programs are well run. as part of the new Intrawest/Related/I dont know who owns it anymore village development there is a new kids bldg/area called the Treehouse. There are also all these fun little cuts through the woods on the mountain that are for kids that are marked with cartoons cutouts at the entrances. Of course the great thing about Snowmass is also the high end skiing especially on a powder day. Most of the clientel isn't intersted in going to the wall or cirque in a storm or for pow turns. So you can get lap after lap while the locals and otehr hotshots are fighting it out on Ajax or Highlands.
Anotehr great beginner area that I would recommend is Squaw Valley. Great weather and it has a cable car and funitel that is perfect for taking little ones to the top. The top od Squaws cable car has a huge recreation complex called High Camp with an outdoor pool that opens in the spring. My own kids loved swimming and then skiing down in their bathing suits. But the real jewel is the alpine meadow above high cam where squaws beginner terrain mostly resides. It's beautiful with great views. Best beginner skiing anywhere.
I'm a big fan of the week long anything. One of the biggest mistakes that ski schools made was moving away from ski weeks. The idea that skiing is easy to learn is nonsense. The idea that you can learn or improve in a 1 hour or 2 hour lesson is also nonsense unless you are extremely athletic or already a really good skier.
Tremblant is one of the few areas that I know that still does the traditional ski week and it's a great program: instruction, banquet, race day etc. It encapsulates not only great instruction but also the traditions and camaraderie that make skiing so much fun.
Taos is a great area.
Todd,
Thanks for your comments. There is a real gang psychology that exists at Epic. It's not unusual and happens in many areas of our society. The desire to belong and to receive recognition is very strong. Keep in mind that many who come to ski teaching do it for their ego. They will quickly volunteer that they are instructors, wear PSIA logo gear, wear their ski school jackets when not skiing etc. It makes them feel important. Those feelings are heightened when they begin the pin chase. The need for validation is strong and once they get it they are very defensive of it.
I tried to inject some levity and sarcasm into what I wrote, It was really over most of their heads. They take themselves so seriously. In fact come to think of it, I dont think I've ever had a ski coach or teacher with that same sense of self importance who was any good.
"I'm a big fan of the week long anything. One of the biggest mistakes that ski schools made was moving away from ski weeks. "
To me there's also a big difference between at least 5 days out of 7 on snow for a program, and the 2.5 to 2.5 day stoke-a-thon including long catered lunches to break up the day and often one day spent hiking or otherwise keeping the group off the lifts, and one or two half-days killed taking video, that many ski area multi-day programs have become. The latter can be great lifestyle experiences but don't have sufficient time to develop motor skills.
"Keep in mind that many who come to ski teaching do it for their ego. They will quickly volunteer that they are instructors, wear PSIA logo gear, wear their ski school jackets when not skiing etc."
This can be very jarring to see at the start of each season. Since becoming an instructor is among other things not economically rational for many who do it, there has to be a strong pull to begin with. This can be good or bad. Moms deciding to sacrifice their own skiing enjoyment to get passes for the family I get, for instance. Others, not so much.
A corollary are the instructors who want to break in to other subgroups, say skiing away from the resort, but have difficulty due to irritating habits they may have already had but were reinforced through hanging out with jackets. Talking loudly about their own abilities, giving unsolicited advice when their own skiing is very limited, that type of thing. There are very healthy egos in all corners of resort towns, other people don't need to deal with yours up front and center because they already have their own.
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